Sir High Lord Zen - Volume 5, Number 7
HIGH LORD ZEN
Well, while normally I’d like to say hello before going into letters, I just don’t have the space in this article. I got a letter, a really long letter which requires an even longer response. So here it goes.
Dear High Lord Zen,
In one of your recent articles you wrote about how no one alive can say whether the Bible is true of just a piece of fiction, and furthermore you tend to view it as fiction. Well, I’d like to see you answer the facts listed bellow. You seem to love to continue on and on about you opinions when there is no one to challenge you, let’s see if you’ve got the guts to print my challenge to you unedited and with a response that doesn’t simply avoid the question. And no excuses that you don’t have space cause you ramble on for pages about nymphs without worrying about spaces!
FACT:
There is a book in sixty-six parts, that was written over a time span of 1600 years, in three different languages, in five different literary styles, by over forty authors from three different continents, who were farmers, statesmen, poets, scholars, kings, physicians, fisherman, a rabbi, a general, and a shepherd. Also, many of these authors had never read anything another one had written. Yet despite this, it is a unified book without a single discrepancy, and a single theme as it covers hundreds of topics.
FACT:
There is a book in which many parts of it were written three thousand years ago when printing presses did not exist and materials were not easily preserved. Yet despite this, there are over 24,000 manuscript portions covering the entire book in existence today that have been proven to be authentic. The nearest book in manuscript authority is the Iliad with only 643 manuscripts
FACT:
There is a book that has been attacked repeatedly by atheistic philosophers, modernists, liberal theologians, rationalists, humanists, scientists, Communists, and countless others throughout time. Yet despite the fact more people have tried to disprove this book than any other, it not only survived, but triumphed. In the 18th century, Voltaire boasted that this book would soon be extinct, yet 50 years after his death, Voltaire’s house and press were used to print this book
FACT:
There is a book which has been proven time after time by scientific discoveries, despite the fact it is so old. Not once has science ever disproved it! 2,200 years before 15th century explorers discovered the world was round, this book described the Earth’s “sphericity.” Archaeologists have tried to disprove it only to confirm what it states in locations of civilizations and cities, historical figures, and accuracy of details associated with specific events.
FACT:
There is a book saturated with specific prophecies concerning nations, cities, historic events, and individuals that have been literally fulfilled in the most minute detail. In the 6th century B.C., seven specific things were predicted in relation to the city of Tyre. 200 years later, each of these prophecies were fulfilled with a mathematical probability of this happening equal to 1 in 7.5×107. 332 prophecies were made in regards to a single man in this book, and each one of them came true to the most minute detail, with countless thousands witnessing their fulfillment throughout an entire nation. The probability of even just 48 of these prophecies coming true is 1×10157!
FACT:
There is a book that has been printed over 7 billion times in over 1800 languages or dialects, and after 1900 years of existence, it is still loved, read and studied by millions. It is the best seller of all time! and it has transformed billions of lives like no other phenomena. It has a revolutionary effect on individuals in spite of their sex, age, nationality, ethnic origin, cultural heritage, social standing, occupation, intellectual attainment, religious background, or environment. Furthermore, countless millions have suffered death, mutilation, torture imprisonment, banishment, confiscation of properties, and ridicule to spread this book’s message.
…ONLY A BOOK INSPIRED BY AN ALL POWERFUL GOD.
THIS BOOK IS THE BIBLE!
Still think the Bible’s fiction? If so, how do you explain away these facts? Pretty big coincidence I’d say, no?
- unsigned
We’ll start by looking at this letter one point at a time.
INTRO
I still maintain that no one alive can know if the bible is true. While normally someone can’t answer facts, what you have provided me is opinions that I will be more than happy to counter with my own opinions. In order for something to be called a fact it must be able to be shown to be true (either through empiricism or accepted logic). Most of your “facts” are derived as true for such reasons as it says so in the bible. If we are arguing the validity of the bible such arguments are meaningless.
I write my opinions whether there is someone to challenge me or not. It is usually more interesting if someone does challenge me, however it doesn’t happen terribly often. But you have issued your challenge. Now let me issue mine. Read what I have to say without using the Bible as an Absolute Truth defense and see how well it stands up.
A little bit of trivia: Every letter that has ever reached me has been published and responded to. None have been edited by me and I don’t think any have ever been edited (except perhaps for spelling). As for my rambling on for pages about Nymphs, I usually aim for a two page article. Some of the later ones last year got much longer, but I am concerned about length. Chara has asked that I even reduce my two pages. But as long as I do what I do letters will be answered. And the Vampiric [note to editor it is Vampiric not Vampire I don't care if it is a word or not] Nymph most annoyed at you for your disparaging comments.
“FACT 1″
Your point? I never said the Bible did not exist, only that it was quite possibly a work of fiction. On your opinion that the bible doesn’t contain a single discrepancy, I think you are sorely mistaken. Let me lead us in today’s bible readings. From the old testament Exodus 20:5 “…. For I the LORD your God am an impassioned God, visiting the guilt of the parents upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generations of those who reject Me, …” also look up Exodus 34:6 and Deuteronomy 5:8 if you are interested. Now let us continue our reading from Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins, he alone shall die. A child shall not share the guilt; nor shall a parent share the burden of a child’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous shall be accounted to him alone, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be accounted to him alone.” For more readings you can also read Ezekiel 18:1.
And now from the new testament Matthew 27:5 “Then he [Judas] threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.” However in Acts 1:18 “… and falling headlong, he [Judas] burst open in a the middle and all his entrails gushed out. I think the above sufficiently shows contradiction in the bible.
So much for “without a single discrepancy.”
“FACT 2″
You could be right on this point. I haven’t done any research that contradicts you but I don’t see how it is relevant. I have never held the opinion that Bible does not exist, nor have I ever held the opinion that it is anything but a frightfully old book. Does accepting it as an old book mean I must accept that it is the book of the Divine Entity? Do I have to accept that it was inspired by the spirit of truth? No, in fact I find no compelling evidence that because it is an old book it must be the teachings of the Divine Entity.
“FACT 3″
I concede the Bible has been attacked for many years, and by many people, but your declaration of survival and triumph is another mater. What exactly do you mean by triumph? There has never been a time when more than a minority of the human race has accepted the Bible. If we were to accept your last statement that the Bible was inspired by an all powerful Divine Entity, then it would seem logical that the entire human race would instinctually know the bible as divine truth. But it appears to me that religion is at an all time low in power and influence. I wish you had included a reference to the Voltaire passage so I could look at it in context, but as with the rest of your “facts” they lack any sort of references.
“FACT 4″
For discussion on science’s agreement with the Bible I suggest you read “God and the Astronomers” by Isaac Asimov. One of the points brought up in that book is the question of the beginning of the universe. While both science and the Bible concur in that at some point the universe began, they have trouble agreeing on exactly when and how. By analyzing the bible various scholars have put the beginning of the universe at between 3761 BC and 5509 BC. Notably James Ussher, Archbishop of Armagh dated the creation of the universe at Oct, 23 4004 BC. Scientists have calculated the beginning of the universe to have occurred roughly 14,999,998,000 BC, give or take a hundred million years or so. I think we all know how many serious scientists believe in creationism over evolution. By the way, if you are going to broadly stereotype a group as either attacking the bible or proving it, I suggest you stay consistent within your stereotype.
Perhaps this more belongs in contradictions in the bible, but I haven’t found anywhere where the sphericity of the bible is described, however the flatness can be ascertained from Isaiah 40:22 and Matthew 4:8. And even if the reference is in there allow me to remind you that the Babylonians, Egyptians, and the Greeks (at the very least) knew the Earth was round. If there was ever a time when it was seriously believed among the learned that the world was flat it was during the dark ages when learning was stifled by the Christians.
As for the “fact” that the Bible is historically accurate, I will agree that it was written in the context of the real world of the time. However, if you go to any book store you can find a large number of fiction books that take place in the real world. You have not proved truth of the bible by saying it was written in the context of the real world.
“FACT 5″
This whole argument is a fallacy. Let us divorce it from absolute authority and see what we get. There is a book with a bunch of prophecies and they all came true. How do you know they all came true? Because the book said they did. Is there supporting evidence that the prophecies came true? From an outside source? Let us take the case of the Tyre prophecies, among those specific prophecies is the fact that Tyre shall never be rebuilt. Get out a world atlas and look up Tyre and you will find it has in fact been rebuilt. Not only that but those archaeologists that prove the bible took place in the context of the real world also prove that the Tyre of today stands over the Tyre of Biblical times (Take a look at August 1974 National Geographic). Another thing to consider is Greek mythology, the Oracle of Delphi made many prophecies all of which came true. Do you suggest Zeus is still wandering around Olympus somewhere? No, chances are you view the myths of the Greek as fictions. In case you missed it that is a highly hypocritical view.
Now to math…. Not many people will argue if I said the chance of the universe ending of Monday at 3:02pm was roughly .0000000001%, and if I said that the probability of the sun rising on Monday was about 100%, again not much argument. But what is the chance of me moving to the west coast in ten years? Now if we got every person in Hughes to make a judgement on that event we would get very diverse set of answers. It is very difficult to assign probabilities to an abstract event. Yet in order for your math to be compelling you would have to choose probabilities for each of those prophesies that everyone agrees with. You don’t provide any of the basis information that would compel me to believe your probabilities. You have not provided any math or a reference to math that might convince a thinking person that just because you suggest these things have this probability it is true. How does that famous quote go? “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics.” I suggest this is the third sort of lie.
“FACT 6″
Yes the bible has been translated and printed a lot. That does not make it the truth according to the Divine Entity. This is the first actual fact (or it could be I haven’t checked your numbers.) in your letter. But evolution and the big bang are both phenomena that affected more people than the bible. I am not convinced that other major religions haven’t affected as many people. Another important point to make is that disco affected millions of peoples lives but that does not make disco the will of the Divine Entity. Furthermore, countless millions have suffered death, mutilation, torture imprisonment, banishment, confiscation of properties, and ridicule because they didn’t bow down to the current in vogue interpretation of the bible. But that is irrelevant to the truth of the bible.
CONCLUSION
Your conclusion does not follow. There is nothing your have said yet to convince me that the book is so horribly special that it must be accepted as inspired by an all powerful god. In fact in writing this article I have been convinced that the Bible was not inspired by a Divine Entity. There may or may not be a Divine Entity, but if there is a Divine Entity it most likely didn’t write the bible, at least in my opinion. In answer to your final statement (after translating to English, that a is high insult coming from me). Yes I still think the Bible is fiction. I’ve already explained the facts (thus, proving that they are not facts.) And I see no coincidence to speak of.
DISCLAIMER
If your belief in God, Jesus, Buddah, Allah, Odin, the number 42, or the Bible helps you get through the day then I support your efforts. I find the most of the above entities cloud any quest for a truth of significance, but I have neither the right nor desire to tell you to give up your safety blanket. What I do have the right to do is ask that if you wish to discuss religion, do it intelligently and with supporting sources. What I am trying to say, but keep getting sidetracked from, is this: If your belief in the Divine Entity and the bible helps you then more power to you, but if you interfere with my free thinking because of your beliefs then you have overstepped your bounds.
Until Later…
Sir High Lord Zen,
Knight of the Ping Pong Table,
Defender of the Wilted Plastic Roses,
Wandering God.