Archive

Archive for the ‘Philosophy/Religion’ Category

Like Father Like Son

January 12th, 2005

“I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say that you’re not equally as patriotic if you’re not a religious person,” Bush said. “I’ve never said that. I’ve never acted like that. I think that’s just the way it is.”

–George W. Bush as quoted in the Washington Post
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/)

This now joins his father’s famous quote about how atheists shouldn’t be considered patriots or citizens.

Philosophy/Religion, Politics

Quote

May 18th, 2004

“If I could now conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution… [E]very man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshiping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.”

(Stokes, supra, p. 495. (Quoting George Washington))
from http://members.tripod.com/~candst/bjcpa1.htm (A Critique of David Barton’s “America’s Godly Heritage”)

Philosophy/Religion, Politics, Quote

email

November 3rd, 2003

I received the following email. This isn’t actually an out of context quote, it is the whole of the email. It came from an invalid email address, so I couldn’t offer a personal response to the author.

“this country was founded on religion so i beleve we can put on our money religous or not.so take your rights and shovem up ur a$$”

This was in regards to my commentary on “In God We Trust” (http://quasisemi.com/ego/money.htm)

Philosophy/Religion, Quote

Is there Evil in Heaven?

October 29th, 2003

I was at Philosophy on Tap last night (think philosophy lecture over beer) and I had some interesting thoughts, or perhaps consequences that I thought I’d share. This session is called ‘whence evil’ or something like that. It is essentially a tracing of the problem of evil to philosophy that includes God. This particular lecture covered Leibniz and Hume. My observations are mostly about Leibniz who is a believer.

Throughout this essay I use the term evil. In this context I am using it as a stand in for the dark side of the force in combination with pain. A more specific definition is possible, but I don’t think it is required for the purposes of this essay.

Leibniz believed that God existed and was omnipotent, omni-benevolent and (redundantly) omniscient. Based on the fact that God was omnipotent and omni-benevolent Leibniz concluded that this must be the best of all possible worlds. This would seem to be a valid conclusion based on the premises. Further any evil we encounter is required. Now this immediately leads to questions of what it is required for and similar questions. I don’t know that we (or Leibniz) can make any deductions based on the premises. All we can really say is that there is no less good way of doing what ever it is that requires evil.

This would seem to me to impinge on God’s omnipotence (or omni-benevolence), but as far as I can tell Leibniz didn’t come to this conclusion. If God is merely the most powerful thing ever then there may be restrictions on how it expresses its will, but once God is elevated to omnipotence such restrictions shouldn’t mean anything anymore.

People often seem unable to conceive of the consequences of omnipotence, however I find it strange that an inventor of calculus would be so constrained. It strikes me that if something is omnipotent, there can be nothing that is a necessary condition to the way that it expresses its will. Omnipotence would seem to require that any rules only be adhered to on a voluntary basis. With the premise that God is omni-benevolent it is unclear what excuse there could be for God expressing its will in such a away that includes evil.

The nature of omnipotence becomes key to my observation, but for the moment we will allow the discussion of omnipotence to lapse. For that sake of argument let us accept that the nature of God’s ‘omnipotence’ could require evil to exist in the world.

Allowing all that for sake of argument, it would seem that there must be evil in Heaven. If this is the best of all possible worlds, it is unclear how Heaven could be better than the best of all possible worlds.

If God’s omnipotence is limited in such a way that this is the best possible world he can create (as required by benevolence), then how can he create a better world and call it Heaven? To phrase it another way, how can Heaven be better than the best of all possible worlds?

Like I said earlier c2 seems to conflict with p2, but that didn’t seem to bother Leibniz. He of course ended with c2, but it seems c3 falls directly out of c1 and c2.

–Zafkiel

Philosophy/Religion

factoid

June 19th, 2003

the oldest surviving artifact that mentions Jesus is a fragment of chapter 18 in John’s Gospel from a manuscript dating to A.D. 125.

– http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/6113655.htm

Philosophy/Religion, Quote

Quote

June 17th, 2003

“The fundamental difference between the liberal and the illiberal outlook is that the former regards all questions as open to discussion and all opinions as open to a greater or lesser measure of doubt, while the latter holds in advance that certain opinions are absolutely unquestionable, and that no argument against them must be allowed be heard.

What is curious about this position is the belief that if impartial investigation were permitted it would lead men to the wrong conclusion, and that ignorance is, therefore, the only safeguard against terror.

This point of view cannot be accepted by any man who wishes reason rather than prejudice to govern human action.”

- Bertrand Russell, “Freedom and the Colleges”

Culture, Philosophy/Religion, Politics, Quote

Quote

June 16th, 2003

Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in all others. His culture is based on “I am not too sure.”

- H.L.Mencken

Philosophy/Religion, Quote

Eye of the Needle

April 23rd, 2003

Yes, are you aware of what the Eye of the Needle actually referred to?

I know you weren’t about to spout that gate in Jerusalem BS. Cause you’re not that gullible.

Besides the ethic was clearly cribbed from Plato who is said, “It is impossible fro an exceptionally good man to be exceptionally rich.” (Plato, LAWS, 743A)

We can assume that the phases were understood to have the same meaning at the time based on “Celsus On the True Doctrine” written by Celsus in 178CE, available in the 1987 translation by R. Joseph Hoffman

“Not only do they misunderstand the words of the philosophers; they even stoop to assigning words of the philosophers to their Jesus. For example, we are told that Jesus judged the rich with the saying ‘It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god.’ Yet we know that Plato expressed this very idea in a purer form when he said, ‘It is impossible for an exceptionally good man to be exceptionally rich.’ Is one utterance more inspired than the other?” (94)

I become familiar with with the quotes by reading “The Jesus Mysteries” by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. Only a bit through it but highly recommended.

–Zafkiel

Philosophy/Religion, Quote

Quote

April 8th, 2003

Article Not written by me, but archived

No matter how many times the president’s fundie sycophants and the pastors of America try to pervert history by invoking Christianity as the moral backbone of the founding fathers the truth stands for all time in the words of the men themselves

The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: “The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy

This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers
http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/founders.htm

“The Christian right is trying to rewrite the history of the United States as part of its campaign to force its religion on others. They try to depict the founding fathers as pious Christians who wanted the United States to be a Christian nation, with laws that favored Christians and Christianity

This is patently untrue. The early presidents and patriots were generally Deists or Unitarians, believing in some form of impersonal Providence but rejecting the divinity of Jesus and the absurdities of the Old and New testaments

Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence: I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of…Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.”
From: The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)

George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance
From: George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)

John Adams, the country’s second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers ‘noble and gallant achievments” but among the clergy, the “pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces”. Late in life he wrote: “Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, “This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!” It was during Adam’s administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that “the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion.”
From: The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814

Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:”I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian.” He referred to the Revelation of St. John as “the ravings of a maniac” and wrote: The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained.”
From: Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814

James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.” “During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”
From: The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785

Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, “That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words.” In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally “denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian.” When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised “to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God.” Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those “written in the great book of nature.”
From: Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of History compiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.)

Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said: As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion…has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho’ it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble.” He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian
From: Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1790

No one disputes the faith of our Founding Fathers. To speak of unalienable Rights being endowed by a Creator certainly shows a sensitivity to our spiritual selves. What is surprising is when fundamentalist Christians think the Founding Fathers’ faith had anything to do with the Bible

Without exception, the faith of our Founding Fathers was deist, not theist. It was best expressed earlier in the Declaration of Independence, when they spoke of “the Laws of Nature” and of “Nature’s God.” In a sermon of October 1831, Episcopalian minister Bird Wilson said, “Among all of our Presidents, from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism.” The Bible? Here is what our Founding Fathers wrote about Bible-based Christianity: Thomas Jefferson: “I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature

They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth.” SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS, by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short Jefferson again: “Christianity…(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. …Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus.” More Jefferson: “The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves…these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ

Jefferson’s word for the Bible? “Dunghill.” John Adams: “Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?” Also Adams: “The doctrine of the divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity.” Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states: “The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”

Here’s Thomas Paine: “I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible).” “Among the most detestable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to ‘God’ to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator’s name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible).” “It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.” “Accustom a people to believe that priests and clergy can forgive sins…and you will have sins in abundance.” And; “The Christian church has set up a religion of pomp and revenue in pretended imitation of a person (Jesus) who lived a life of poverty.”

Finally let’s hear from James Madison: “What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy.” Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote: “Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.” These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population

Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed
http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html ?

no matter how much Jefferson and Madison tried to pitchfork religion out of official governmental actions, it has kept sneaking back in, beating down attempts to contain it. Madison said that religion is ‘not within the cognizance of civil government.’ He did not even want ministers of religion to list their profession in the government’s census, since ‘the general government is proscribed from interfering, in any manner whatever, in matters respecting religion, and it may be thought to do this in ascertaining who and who are not the ministers of the gospel.’ Madison was aware that most nations have made an instrumental use of God (as the endorser of secular policy) and that this dishonors God rather than honors him. It recruits him to secular purpose and literally ‘takes the Lord’s name in vain.’ Madison would allow men in danger of death to have chaplains of their own denominations near them if financed by their own denominations. But that is different from putting ministers in government uniform, under government discipline
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/30/magazine/30THEOCRACY.html

proton

Philosophy/Religion, Politics, Quote

Quote

February 25th, 2003

Gods don’t kill people - people with Gods kill people.

–Seen in someone’s .sig file

Philosophy/Religion, Quote